Interview between Tatjana Stanković PXD SYSTEM
INTERNATIONAL's Board Director and Aleksandar Akrura Todorović WOLRD WIDE LIFE
COACH and BUSINESS EDUCATOR
BUSINESS – SPIRITUALITY, IS THERE A CONNECTION
!?
( part 1 )
For the past 10 years,
Tatjana Stankovic is Member of Board of the Directors of PXD System
International, company for distribution of products for health and education of
people. She has been in the business for 15 years, with previous sales
experience in few other companies. She is one of the best students in the
history of Mechanical Engineering at the University of St. Cyril and Methodius,
in Skopje, Macedonia.
PXD SYSTEM INTL
Aleksandar Akrura
Todorovic is a Spiritual Life Coach, success teacher, lecturer, and seminar
leader. He also performs traditional and modern spiritual music.
GITA COACHING
A lot of people want to
achieve success in life and in their business and generally in the beginning
they don’t know How? Somehow they start the business, they have certain success
but they stuck somewhere. On the other hand they start having certain
discipline, and become better people and start being in a better communication
with their business partners because they see,
this is needed.
And because they hear or
they have a family custom, they practice some type of spirituality. But as I
can see there is no connection between their business life and their spiritual
life. So, now the main question is:
T.S.: Is there a connection between Business
and Spirituality?
A.A.T.: Definitely there is a clear
and strong connection between spirituality and business. There are a spiritual
laws of success that some of the famous teachers today promote and teach. And
there are basically many many principles that are very very spiritual and that
are used in business education, business training, sales training and like
that. And they are not always given credit as being spiritual.
So
we have like, we have a phenomena of ethical business, we have spirituality in
the work place. We have many many courses, that actually teach how to live and
work in the mode of goodness, how to work in goodness. Although Tony Robbins
says: “ Live with passion “ but he himself teaches many many principles of
goodness.
So
in this conversation we can speak about specific principles that are in their
own nature spiritual
T.S.: OK, As I understood there is a connection
between business and spirituality. But now the question is Why there is
connection between business and spirituality and why this connection is very
close?
A.A.T.: Its very simple. Life is an
indivisible whole.
We
are not one sided or one dimensional beings. We have at least four dimensions
and some people say there is more than that but I want to propose four human
capacities or four human needs, that are part of life. Very clear distinct part
of life. One of them is Spiritual side of life, one of them is Physical side of
life, which refers to our body, our physical wellbeing, our health, one is
Mental How our mind and intelligence work, how we use our creativity and the
forth one is Emotional side of life: How we relate to other people, How we
express love, how we receive love.
So,
life is an indivisible whole as Gandhi said, and every area affects the other
area. Like if you have a car with four wheels, if one wheel brakes,tire if one
tire brakes, the car will go for some time but ultimately you have to stop and
fix it. Similarly, if any of these four areas doesn’t work, other 3 areas are
affected and one has to look at that area and try to fix it.
T.S.: OK, so does that mean that business cannot
function without spirituality?
A.A.T.: Business can function without spirituality
and spiritual principles but not for a long time. We see that people who
neglect those principles of success, they run for some time but then after some
time the business fails and business stops functioning.
There
is many, many examples of this. For example there was a restaurant, who started
neglecting their clients. In the beginning, they were very kind and very
sensitive and considerate of their clients but then they became Big and they
became Proud. They neglected the principle of customer care and they also the
quality of the products. They started buying cheap food and material that was
not of a such good quality and so slowly the quality of the preparations they
made went down. And slowly, slowly..actually it happened when new management
came and they wanted to be very efficient and they wanted to exploit the
clients and slowly slowly this business actually was closed. Because they
neglected the very principle, that brought them initial success.
T.S.: There
is a… I have a friend of mine and I was trying to explain that a person has to
be a better person every day, more and more, to be more successful in business.
And this is spiritual principle as I know. And he told me this is not possible
because I have so many friends that I know and they have money, so he said that,
but they are acting and behaving so ugly that I cannot understand. They talk to
people very ugly, they have not good communication with their family, they
don’t communicate good with their employees, they do ugly things but still the
business works. How is that possible? These people have money. This was his
question. Now my question is the same?
A.A.T.: This is a very
good, very practical question and the answer is very simple. They are spending
their accumulated credits. So by the way they acted in the past they created
some good karma or good credits and now it seems like they don’t have to follow
this principles any more and they can do whatever they like. They can even act
in such a bad way and still seem to be successful.
So whoever is successful and
at the same time he seems to be breaking the laws of success, the spiritual
laws of success, their success is temporary. If you want long-term success,
which even can go beyond this lifetime than you have to follow this laws of
success.
So an intelligent businessman
wants long-term success. He wants clients who are lifetime clients, not one
sale, one deal client. And these kinds of businesses actually become really,
really huge and really big.
T.S.:
Now the next thing that is like a result of
this previous question is- Is there a possibility that without spirituality the
business can be honest and in virtue?
A.A.T.: Actually virtue or goodness is spiritual, it
comes from spirituality, so business cannot be successful without this.
And
ultimately we see that even now days politicians are taking advice from high
class leadership teachers. And we know that in politics there is a lot of
corruption and a lot of cheating. And of course these teachers will not
encourage that. They will not tell them: “ Continue with your, you know
corruption strategy and your strategy of you know, being a very smart cheater!”
They will teach them, but now these days they see,..There is one expert, who is
an expert on trust. So as soon as you start speaking of trust, trust is a
spiritual principle.
So,
what is trust? How can somebody be trusted? How they can be trust worthy ?
There are two thing in order to trust someone, character and competence.
Character and competence. So, if person has a good character, he is a well
meaning, well wishing, he is a person who has good qualities, their
communications is very friendly and kind and patient and polite, we can trust
him. But its not enough to trust him completely. They have to show competence
for example if you are competent consultant or expert in anything like dentist
or a surgeon, then people can trust you, you can be a good guy but if you don’t
know, if you always pull out the wrong tooth, we cannot trust you. On the other
hand, you can be very expert in you know like doing some technical work or some
manual work but then on the other side you always charge more, or there is
hidden expenses and like that, again we cannot trust you, as a class business
person. So, there has to be both character and competence in order for someone
to trust.
And
that’s a spiritual principle.
T.S.: Ok, now, when we started talking about
this. What is the best way to use these principles of spirituality in business?
And can you name some principles that can be used in business although as I
understood all the spiritual principles can be used in business?
A.A.T.: Few examples of spiritual
principles. First I already mentioned Trust, it is also related to Integrity,
Honesty. So, very important thing in business and in life is to Make and keep
promises. If you want to build trust, you make and keep promises. If you
promised that your product, will help me and then it doesn’t help me, then you
know you are not keeping your promise. Or we have to see why it doesn’t help
him ? Maybe I’m not using it in a right way, maybe you need to train me and
educate me how to use it properly, so that I get the results, I want to get.
Another
very, very important principle, spiritual principle in business is WIN WIN.
Looking for mutual benefit in all interactions. And WIN WIN approach actually
ensures long term relationship. Long term mutual benefit. And we see that this
also influences marketing. Your marketing investment and the expense will be
much smaller if your approach to business is WIN WIN. Because your own clients
will be your free marketing force. They will bring you other clients because
they will recommend your services and products. And that is spiritual
principle.
These
are only few but there is many more.
T.S.:
All these that we said mean that if spirituality is involved in the
business, the results can be better. When there is synergy between spirituality
and business. Do you have some experience where people were doing examination
of one business and another similar business and when in one was only a business
and in another there were all spiritual principles involved and this second one
had better results ? Do you have this kind of example or experience?
A.A.T.: Well I will give you very,
very famous example I believe any business person any business leader is aware
of the work of Jim Collins. And he has written this book “Good to Great “ which
is the study of how good companies became great and how they stayed great. And
this is very pragmatic, nothing idealistic, its actually experiential. Proofs
are there. There are very tangible measures and proofs How companies remained
great for many, many years. His criteria was very rigid. One of the companies I
remember, two of the companies I remember are World Greens, this is American
company not so much present in Europe and Gillette. Gillette everybody knows.
You know, they have shaving creams, shavers, different things.
He
has named eleven companies, which actually fitted into the highly rigid
criteria of being a great company. So what we see there is again, something
that is related to being trustworthied. There are both character and
competence, they had character and competence.
For
example Jim Collins has developed the Concept of level five leader. And Level
five leader is somebody, who has strong professional will and humility. This
was the result of his study. These leaders were amazing leaders. They were
helpers of thousand geniuses.
We
have a Phenomena of Celebrity leader, who is basically a Genius with thousand
Helpers. But great companies had leaders who are level 5 and they were helpers
of thousand geniuses. So their teams, they had people who were amazing people
in their teams and they were not putting themselves first, as celebrity
leaders.
So,
this study is very practical, you can read it. This is a tangible proof, how
spiritual principles work in business and how they make companies great.
T.S.: Does this all mean that there is no result
if there is no Spirituality in the Business?
A.A.T.: Well again as I said, results can be there. You
asked about the bed guy, who is very successful, you ask me what I think of it.
You can have results but very, very big criteria of measurements are for how
long? So you can be successful for some time but you cannot be successful long
term if you are breaking spiritual laws of success.
T.S.: Is it more important to educate people to
become more spiritual, I mean people that work for the company or is more
important when you have communication with your clients to respect spiritual
principles or both?
A.A.T.: I think in order to be successful in this world,
which has its spiritual side and its material side, we need both. We need the
synergy of material and spiritual. And one principle which I will first
describe in Sanskrit is very, very powerful principle is called “Yukta
vairagya”. It comes from one very, very wonderful teacher from the 15th
Century Rupa Goswami and he says that You can use anything from the material
world but use it to benefit others. Use it well. Don’t use it to exploit
others, don’t use it for anything bad. And in this way we can use unlimited
resources that we can get, unlimited money, unlimited materials, things like
that, equipment, if we use it for good purposes. You know and in this way we
can benefit others, benefit ourselves and our usage of material things will be
spiritually based. So we need both, we need this synergy of spiritual and
material.
T.S.: Ok.
And which is the best way to introduce spirituality in business to people? Is
there a certain technique or coaching seminar or mixed method or everyday briefing
with people. Which is the best way to introduce and the easiest one for them to
understand on both levels?
A.A.T.: In order to do that, to introduce
spiritual principles to people we need to educate them. We need to educate them
regularly. Not only one seminar a year but at least one seminar a month with
the follow up with coaching, personal consultation.
And for example this interview
is already an introduction and what I am presenting here for our readers is the
benefits of spirituality in business.
What is the benefit? The benefit is that you get better results. Especially you
get better long-term results. So I believe that most of the business people
want long-term results and therefore they would be interested.
So spirituality in business is
not some idealistic dream. It’s actually something very practical and practical
means results. Everybody wants results and if there is a way to achieve
long-term results they would definitely be interested.
T.S.: And
now one question came up to my mind. Is it possible that the main founder and
the director and the main board of the company is not in virtue and doesn’t
practice the principle of spirituality but besides that, they want to introduce
this to the people that work and are incorporated into the process?
Is it possible that the leader of the company, the
founder, directors are not spiritually educated and they still want to educate
the people that work in the company about spiritual principles. Is it possible?
A.A.T.: This is a very good question and I
believe that this is often a case. I have heard in one seminar, in my seminars
also I ask that question – “How many of you think that people who need to hear
this are not here?”
In my work with people around
the world I actually come to companies, to institutions and teach and then the
main guys, you know, the top guys are not there. They encourage the people to
go to the seminar, they like their people to hear about this but they are not
there. And of course most of the people think that they are the ones who should
hear it most. So what to do in this situation?
You see, you can start
transformation, you can start turnaround, you can start change from any part of
the company, from any individual in the company. This principle is called trim
tab. Trim tab is a small radar on the boat. A small radar can slowly turn
completely the direction of the boat although it goes slower than the big
radar. Let’s say that this small radar is a person who has small influence. But
if they start to do the right thing, if they start to apply these powerful
principles slowly their positive influence will spread and then somehow they
will contribute to creating a culture that is based on those principles.
And of course there is a great
advantage if top management is supportive. But even if they are not the culture
will spread and these man will just either have to.... the culture, assimilate and start to be
supportive with their own example or they will have to leave and go somewhere
else. So to me change can come from any part of the company and the results can
happen and they can be visible.
T.S.: After
all these questions, is there
something that we didn’t mention and you think that it is very good to be
mentioned?
A.A.T.: Yes, thank you for this question. One of
the principles… you see what I’m telling you, you have probably heard from many teachers. There are teachers who are
more clearly pointing out the spiritual side of life and the spiritual side of
business. Some teachers are doing it in a more hidden way, some teachers even
mention religiosity. Like, for example, Ken Blanchard,
the author of “One Minute Manager”. He is working with one minister or priest
on a project called Lead Like Jesus.
So, you know, he is clearly expressing his faith in God and the importance of
that connection. But most of the teachers are quite shy about mentioning something
that is to me, actually, Key to success.
And why call it connection? The word yoga means connection. The word religion
means reconnect, religare, and we are not the only doer. We can do everything
right but we are not the one who ultimately controls the results of our efforts
and our actions.
So what we can do and what we
can benefit from by listening and following different teachers is- we can increase the probability of our success by
aligning ourselves, by following these principles of success, the spiritual
laws of success. But still, even this doesn’t
guarantee a hundred percent success.
There has to be a higher
connection. And there has to be a link to universal, I would say, management, and universal connection and laws and we
have to see what actually life and universe and God is allowing us to have as
results. So the distinction of the Bhagavad Gita as ultimate success guide is
that it describes five factors of action and of results. And one of them is the
Super soul or the Over soul some teachers say, like mentioned the Over soul.
This is the factor of success that is neglected and often success teachers do
not even mention it. And they give us impression that we are almighty and that with our efforts and the right alignment with the laws
of success we are going to be successful. Another big question that we can
explore in another interview is- Who is the lawmaker and where all these laws
came from? That would be interesting to know.
T.S.: Ok,
one more question. How can this connection between us and God be introduced to
ignorant people or people, ok we can not say ignorant but people that are
hundred percent involved into mater and don’t see more than that?
A.A.T.: We can help people see more clearly the
spiritual side of life and because actually everybody is a spiritual being they
already have a sense of spirituality in them. It is not something that we have
to impose on them. They already have that sense.
How the spiritual side of life
and this kind of connection already manifests in the lives of everyone, in the
lives of the general mass of people. For example, one is intuition. People can
have that sense, you know, from inside about certain things. Then there is
paranormal occurrences. Things that are completely against known laws but are
happening. There is so-called accidents, or there is synchronicity, there is
serendipity. There is all this phenomena that is out of ordinary, that is even
sometimes out of the laws that we know. And people can start thinking, they start
thinking, like, there is some separate reality.
There is something higher and,
you know, many people nowadays with so many books on success, happiness and
spirituality more and more people are thinking about something else, that there
must be something else. They are thinking deeper or higher and I think many
people are ready to learn more about all these spiritual principles and all
these dimensions of life.
T.S.: So,
what can be our message to the people that will listen this and they want to
connect because there is a very close connection between spirituality and
business. What can be our message to the people that hear this?
A.A.T.: Our short message could be that if you
understand that you are a spiritual being then the number of possibilities for
you increases and your potential that you have will be much more used. You will
realize that you have much more potential than you are using right now and that
you can achieve much more, you can be more happy, you can make other people more
happy if you become open to learn about other dimensions of life and other
sources of knowledge, strength and skill.
T.S.: Ok,
now I have to thank you for these straight answers because I’ve been in
business for ten years and I always felt that there is a connection. I felt it
but I didn’t know how to explain it, how to explain the principles. So I have
to thank you for these vey, very clear explanations about this strong
connection that definitely exists.
A.A.T.: It is my pleasure.
